Category Archives: Crop Planning

Talking Seeds On Permaculture Voices Podcast

In December I was a guest on the Permaculture Voices podcast.

I spoke with Diego Footer about

  • the profitability of growing seeds for sale,
  • differences between growing seed crops and market vegetable crops,
  • and how much space a seed crop actually takes.

You can listen to the podcast here.

This podcast is a lead up to one of the workshops I’ll be giving at Permaculture Voices 3 this spring. At that event I’ll also run a workshop about crop planning for farm profitability.


Planning Seed Crops Webinar – Wed. Feb 19, 2014

You are invited to join us for a webinar on Planning Vegetable Seed Crops. 
The first in our series “Growing for Seed: The Fundamentals” this webinar will feature presentations from Patrick Steiner (Stellar Seeds, BC), Daniel Brisebois (Tourne-Sol Cooperative Farm, QC), and Michelle Smith (Northwind Farm, NS). Together they’ll cover a range of topics to get you started in your seed garden this year, including:
–Knowing seed crops & lifecycle patterns, isolation distances, and population sizes;
–Sourcing appropriate seed stock and integrating seed production onto your farm; and
–Using and marketing seed crops: intended use and prospective buyers.
DATE: Wednesday February 19th, 2014
TIME: 4:00 p.m. – 5:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time
TO JOIN THE MEETING, simply click here, or copy and paste this link into your browser:
Once the meeting is started you should be able to see and hear everything directly on/from your computer. If you can see the meeting, but you can’t hear us, you can dial-in (toll-free) to get the audio.
The phone number is 1-866-811-9555, the conference code you will be prompted to enter is 9730133156. Please use your phone only if you can’t use your computer.
In order to participate in the webinar you’ll need:
–A computer with Flash. If you can watch (and hear) a YouTube video, you’re probably all good. If you can’t try downloading Flash Player here.
–If you’re in a shared space, you’ll want headphones to plug into your computer to hear the audio without disturbing others.
If you have never attended an Adobe Connect meeting before you can get a quick overview here:
If you have questions about how to join this webinar, please contact Steph at 
If you can’t join us on Wednesday, but are interested in this content, we will be posting it online at Please be patient with us, we’ll post the content as quickly as we can.
Please note that this is an English webinar. We are planning 2 French webinars and will keep you updated on that as details are confirmed.

Plant Seed Crops on Time – Seed Production Planning Part 4

This is the fourth part of a series on crop planning for seed production. Seed production planning part 3 covered calculating how much to grow to meet your farm and marketing demands.

The next step is choosing when to plant your seed crop to get a reliable seed harvest. (Most of this article was originally posted on its own last spring but I thought it fit nicely into this Crop Planning discussion.)


My first seed harvests were from vegetables that bolted and didn’t make it to market. This worked well for a bit, and then it didn’t . I learned that if you want a reliable seed harvest, the crop has to go into the ground with that goal in mind. This means planting at the right time.

When you plant a seed crop too late, you run the risk

– The crop simply won’t have time to set seed before fall showers, hard frosts and then snow compromise harvest opportunities and seed quality.

– Or the crop might return to vegetative growth as the day-length gets shorter. In mid-August, I’ve been caught with little seed when kale and some lettuces  quit producing flowers, stop maturing seeds and begin to sprout new leaves.


This depends on how well a crop tolerates cold and frost. Here are three ways to divide crops:

– The hardiest crops can be seeded as soon as the ground can be worked. This includes lettuce, peas, dill, cilantro, fava beans, overwintered roots (carrots, beets, rutabaga, onions)

– Hardy crops (but a little less hardy than the hardiest) occasionally bolt after sudden spring cold snaps. It is usually safe to seed these crops by early May directly in the field. You can plant these crops a bit earlier if you use row cover for cold protection or  plant hardened off transplants instead of seeds. This category is mainly filled with annual brassicas like  short season broccoli and cauliflower and leafy greens like arugula, tatsoi, and  mustards.

– Frost sensitive crops need to wait till after the last frost. Waiting a week or two longer, until the  soil warms up, will create better conditions for these crop to establish. But don’t plant so late the crop won’t have time to mature before fall frosts! Row cover and plastic mulch can speed up soil warming. Nightshades (tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants), Cucurbits (squash, cucumbers, and melons), and beans are the main frost sensitive crops.


Planting any seed crop in less than ideal conditions will reveal which plants and varieties can better tolerate adversity. Recurring selection under these conditions will make the crop hardier. If you walk this road, though, be prepared to lose some crop as you learn.

And of course not all crop and varieties will be successful on all sites or in all climates.

This year’s wet weather has delayed a lot of our spring plantings. Many of our earliest seed crops have been planted a couple of weeks later than I would like. I’ll keep you posted on how that affects our seed harvests this season.

Shortly I’ll wrap up this seed production planning series with a post on crop rotation.

Seed Production Planning Part 3 – How Much To Grow

This is the third part of a series on crop planning for seed production. Seed production planning part 2 covered calculating how much seed to harvest to meet your farm and marketing demands.

The next step is determining how many plants you need to grow to produce the amount of seed you need. We’ll look at the basic math to calculate how much to plant and two examples.


This is the basic equation:

Harvest Targets x Safety Factor ÷ Yield = Bed Length to Plant

Harvest Targets: This was calculated in Seed Production Planning part 2.

Safety Factors: Weather, pests, diseases, and weeds can dramatically alter what you can expect to harvest. Seed yields are more variable than vegetable yields. It’s good to target growing 25% to 75% more seed than you need to compensate for the potential losses.

Yield: The amount of seed you can expect to harvest on average from a certain number of plants or area of crop. Last spring I wrote a blog on seed yields that goes further into the subject.

Here is an updated chart of some of our seed yields at Tourne-Sol farm.

Crop Rows/Bed Inrow spacing grams/bedft*
Beans bush – 2 pole – 1 6″-12″ 75-100g
Beets/Chard 2 12″ 100g
Brassicas 2 or 3 12″-18″ 25-100g
Cucurbits 1 24″ 25-100g
Lettuce** 3 12″ 10-28g
Onions 3 12″ 25-50g
Peas bush – 2 pole – 1 6″ 50-75g
Solanacea 1 or 2 12″-24″ 3-10g

* A bedft is a one foot long slice of your growing bed.

** Our lettuce yields are lower than what is possible in drier climates.


In Seed Production Planning part 2 we estimated 6720g of Tatsoi seed would meet our hypothetical farm and marketing needs. From previous experience I know my Tatsoi seed yields about 50g/bedft but that the yield can vary greatly from year to year.

Harvest Targets x Safety Factor ÷ Yield = Bed Length to Plant

6720g x 1,5 ÷ 50g/bedft = 201 bedft

If I grow 200 bedft, I should be able to meet my Tatsoi seed needs. If the weather cooperates and I harvest before much seed shatters, I could potentially harvest much more seed than I need.


Harvest Targets: 321g would meet our hypothetical farm and marketing seed needs.

Yield: I usually get about 7g/bedft of seed from small to medium-sized tomatoes like Jaune Flammée.

SF: On our farm tomato yields don’t vary as much as brassica greens. I’ll only use a 1.25 SF.

321g x 1,25 ÷ 7g/bedft = 57 bedft

I should meet my Jaune Flammée seed needs if I grow 60 bedft of plants.


In my next post, I’ll tackle when to plant seed crops to make sure you can harvest on time. And later, I’ll cover some seed crop rotation basics.

I also plan on posting some of what we’ve been doing during this rainy spring.

Hope it’s as sunny as you would like it to be wherever your skies are …

Seed Production Planning Part 2 – Calculating Seed Needs

This is the second part of a series on crop planning for seed production. Seed production planning part 1 covered growing small trials to evaluate whether a variety was worth growing to seed on your farm in your climate.

Once you’ve decided the varieties for  this year’s seed production, you need to determine how much seed you would like to harvest.


Under good storage conditions most seed will last a number of years. You can grow enough in one year to cover your seed needs for multiple years. This has a few benefits:

  • Growing fewer varieties gives you more space for better isolation distances to avoid cross-pollination.
  • Growing a larger number of plants of on variety provides more plants to observe and you can better select the most fit individuals. Large population also maintain a broader genetic pool that ensures more resilient varieties.
  • Cleaning bigger seed lots is easier than cleaning small seed lots.

For most varieties, I aim to grow enough seed for at least a 3-year supply. (This is not possible for all varieties. I.e. parsnip, leeks and onions lose germination quickly after a year in storage.)

(You can read a previous post about isolation distances and population sizes.)


Consider all the ways you sell or use seed, and estimate the needs for each use. This includes

  • Seed you use on-farm. This is calculated from your crop plan – basically the rowfoot you plan to grow multiplied by a seeding rate. (The crop planning for organic vegetable growers handbook covers this.)
  • Seed sold through a seed catalog (in packets or in bulk). This is projected from the previous year’s sales records.
  • Seed sold to other seed companies. This is based on how much seed they need.

Then make a chart to summarize this information. Here are two examples loosely based on our farm.


Tatsoi is a leafy green from the Brassica rapa species.

At Tourne-Sol farm, we seed a lot of Tatsoi to sell bunching or as part of our salad mixes. We also sell Tatsoi seed as packets to gardeners and in bulk quantities to other farmers.  And our seed company clients purchase regular amounts of our Tatsoi seed.

 Purpose 2012 2013 2014 Total
Farm Use 120g 120g 120g

360 g

Packet Sales 100g(50pkts x 2g) 120g(60pkts x 2g) 140g(70pkts x 2g)

360 g

Bulk Sales 1kg 1kg 1kg

3000 g

For Other Seed Companies 1kg 1kg 1kg

3000 g


6720 g

We’ll need to harvest about 7 kg of Tatsoi seed to meet our projections for the next 3 years.


We need significantly less tomato seeds than Tatsoi seeds. Since we transplant tomatoes, our on-farm needs are low and we only sell packets through our seed catalog. Our seed company clients purchase a significant volume but they usually buy enough seed for multiple years at once.

 Purpose 2012 2013 2014 Total
Farm Use 1g 1g 1g

3 g

Packet Sales 5g(50pkts x 0.1g) 6g(60pkts x 0.1g) 7g(70pkts x 0.1g)

18 g

Bulk Sales

0 g

For Other Seed Companies 300g

300 g


321 g

We’ll need to harvest 321 g of Jaune Flammée tomato seed to meet our projections.


In our next seed production planning installment we’ll figure out how many plants to grow to meet these seed needs.

Seed Production Planning Part 1 – Choosing Crops

A large part of my winter is spent crop planning – figuring out what crops to grow, how much of each to grow, and when and where they should be planted.

This process starts in December, and though the bulk of our vegetable planning is done by January, the seed crops seem to take a lot longer to finalize.In fact, even though we’ve already started seeding in the greenhouse, I’m still a few days away from wrapping up this year’s seed growing plan.

Over the next couple of weeks, I will share the broad strokes of how I plan seed crops.

We’ll start by how to choose seed crops to grow. Likely you want to grow crops that are worth growing and that will produce seed. So good crop planning often starts off the previous year by …


  1. Get seed for that new variety. You can also get seeds from a few different seed sources so you can compare different strains.
  2. Get more than enough seed. If the trial is successful, you want to have enough seed to grow a future seed crop.
  3. Plant at least 5-10 bedfeet of the variety. If you’re trialling different strains plant 5-10 bedfeet of each strain. Better yet grow this trial beside other varieties with which you are familiar.


  • Does it look like it’s supposed to?
  • Does it taste good? Does it taste amazing?
  • Is is easy to pack for market?
  • Is it better as a home garden crop?
  • How does it resist pests and diseases in your area?
  • Does it produce an adequate yield?


Does this variety set seed early enough to avoid fall showers and low temperatures? Autumn weather can germinate seed on the plant or create ideal conditions for fungal and bacterial disease that can rot the seed or leave seedborne diseases.

If you can’t get quality seed from this crop, it is probably not worth growing a large seed crop.


Tough the same basic seed cleaning principles apply to most crops, each variety has its own tricks.

Before growing a large lot you, you should see whether you’re able to process a small lot to your satisfaction.


Even seed you purchase from a reliable commercial source may have accidental crossing. Is this strain true to type?

If the variety is crossed up, you might consider trying a different source for clean seed. However, if there is small amounts of crossing you can also clean the seed up by growing the seed for a couple of generations and removing off-types before they produce pollen. You shouldn’t sell this seed until the variety is growing true to type again.

Every new seed lot you buy has a chance to be crossed up. Even if you’ve previously purchased pure seed of the variety from this source in the past. This is why it is very important to start with enough seed for your trial and your first large seed crop. It is even better is to get enough seed for a second seed crop in case the first one fails.


Once you’re sure you would like to grow a larger seed crop you have to determine how much seed you want to harvest. And that’s what we’ll figure out next time!

In the meantime, you can visit and see my contribution to their recent post on tricks for speeding germination and seedling growth.

How I Started Selling Seeds – Part 2

Last post, I wrote about how Tourne-Sol started offering seeds to other seed companies, and how tomatoes were the crop they bought.  But my  seed story didn’t start with tomato seeds; it began with the first couple pounds of arugula seed I harvested (you can read that story here). This arugula seed started a relationship with brassica seeds that kind of got out of hand.  The ensuing surplus of seed created another way we developed our relationship with our seed company clients.


Tourne-Sol grows a lot of salad greens for market and CSA, and these salad greens consume a large amount of seed. From a coulpe dozen brassica plants we were able to meet all our Tatsoi seed. A few dozen more placed elsewhere on the farm, and we had all the Mizuna seed we needed. The same with a half dozen other varieties of brassica greens.

Simultaneous to this I was reading up about plant popuplations, cross pollinators and maintaining genetic breadth and resilience (I posted a bit about that here). This led to growing more plants of each variety, which then led to harvesting more seed. To be honest, another reason I wanted to grow larger volumes of seed was to be able to run my fingers through bucketfuls.

As quantities increased, I moved to growing brassica on a 3-year rotation since the seed kept so well and I wanted to avoid cross pollination. But when I started to harvest 5-7 pounds of seed per variety, there was more seed than we could use up in three years. I needed to do something.

So I called up the seed companies who already bought our seeds and asked whether they were interested in brassica seeds? A couple said yes. Then they asked how much I was selling it for.


Until then, the  seed companies I had dealt with had set their own rates for seed. I wasn’t sure what to charge. I asked them what they thought was fair ? One person mentioned they’d bought some brassica seed for $20/ounce. That gave me a starting point.

After I hung up, I took out a pen and paper and crunched some numbers starting with what weight I’d harvested from what growing area. Then,  I looked at all the seed catalogues in my collection and listed the different ways they priced bulk brassica green prices. I realized that  $20/ounce was a great price but that with my seed yield, I could afford to ask for significanlty less. With a lower price, I figured I could sell more seed.  I went back to my seed clients and offered them a range of prices  with larger seed volumes at proportionally lower prices. ( Here is a detailed post on how we price seeds.)


Essentially, the two ways Tourne-Sol sells seed to other seed companies is on contract and on speculation. To highlight the difference between these two options, let’s compare how we plan and sell tomato seed (contract) and brassica seed (speculation).

TOMATO SEEDS: In the spring,  there is a flurry of e-mails back and forth with each company to whom I sell tomato seeds. We select tomato varieties together and determine what quantities they would like to reserve for the fall. I like to have a harvest target since tomato seed takes time to harvest, squish and ferment in large quantities. Since the bulk of our tomato seed is destined to seed companies, the number of tomato plants I grow for seed depends mainly on quantities these companies commit to purchasing.

BRASSICA SEEDS: Currently, I try to grow as much brassica seed as space permits in one year to use over the next 3 years.We use a lot of brassica seeds on farm and we do sell bulk salad green seeds through our own seed catalogue to farmers and gardeners. At present, I usually run out of brassica seed before the next production cycle comes around.As such, we don’t need a solid commitment from our seed company clients to determine what we will grow. Of course, every spring I do give them a heads up of what I am growing so they can plan accordingly. If they want to reserve some seed, I am happy to do that. However, if they want to wait until the fall to tell me what they need, that doesn’t drastically change our production goals.


Now the moral of this story is not to grow out a large quantity of seed on speculation and then try to sell it. That’s a great recipe for a lot of seed in your closet. Rather, grow the seed that you use and experiment with larger quantities. When you feel comfortable, approach seed companies with what you know you can do and find out what they want. Don’t start off with too much ambition – growing a lot of great seed is not easy. Develop a relationship with the folks who buy your seed and gradually increase quantities as you gain proficiency.


My co-farmer Fred received a grand prize for Tourne-Sol farm from Quebec’s finançière agricole contest Tournez vous vers l’excellence. Click here to see the contest’s video profile on Fred and the farm (note – it is in French).

Next on Going to Seed, less words and more pictures.